From tuhs at tuhs.org Thu Jan 1 01:26:50 2026 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Angelo Papenhoff via TUHS) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2025 16:26:50 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] unix v4 tape found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And i gave a lightning talk at 39c3: https://media.ccc.de/v/39c3-lightning-talks-tag-3#t=6345 aap On 20/12/25, Angelo Papenhoff via TUHS wrote: > It's booting too! added info to the readme. > > =uboot > k > unix > > login: root > # ls > bin > dev > etc > lib > mnt > tmp > unix > usr > # > > > aap > > On 20/12/25, Angelo Papenhoff via TUHS wrote: > > I extracted it: http://squoze.net/UNIX/v4/ > > > > aap > > > > On 19/12/25, Matt Day via TUHS wrote: > > > Rob Ricci updated today on his Mastodon page: > > > > The attempt to read the UNIX V4 tape is underway! > > > > I'm told "there is data" but I honestly don't know what that means yet. > > > -- https://discuss.systems/@ricci/115747843169814700 > > > The process is being filmed by a TV news crew and some footage is already > > > available. > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 6, 2025 at 3:42 PM Rob Pike via TUHS wrote: > > > > > > > https://phanpy.social/#/hachyderm.io/s/115504720323483804 > > > > > > > > From mastodon: > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob Ricci > > > > ricci at discuss.systems > > > > > > > > While cleaning a storage room, our staff found this tape containing #UNIX > > > > v4 from Bell Labs, circa 1973 > > > > > > > > Apparently no other complete copies are known to exist: > > > > gunkies.org/wiki/UNIX_Fourth_E > > > > > > > > > > > > We have arranged to deliver it to the Computer History Museum > > > > From tuhs at tuhs.org Thu Jan 1 01:33:06 2026 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Warner Losh via TUHS) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2025 08:33:06 -0700 Subject: [TUHS] unix v4 tape found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sweet talk. Thanks for sharing. Warner On Wed, Dec 31, 2025, 8:27 AM Angelo Papenhoff via TUHS wrote: > And i gave a lightning talk at 39c3: > https://media.ccc.de/v/39c3-lightning-talks-tag-3#t=6345 > > aap > > On 20/12/25, Angelo Papenhoff via TUHS wrote: > > It's booting too! added info to the readme. > > > > =uboot > > k > > unix > > > > login: root > > # ls > > bin > > dev > > etc > > lib > > mnt > > tmp > > unix > > usr > > # > > > > > > aap > > > > On 20/12/25, Angelo Papenhoff via TUHS wrote: > > > I extracted it: http://squoze.net/UNIX/v4/ > > > > > > aap > > > > > > On 19/12/25, Matt Day via TUHS wrote: > > > > Rob Ricci updated today on his Mastodon page: > > > > > The attempt to read the UNIX V4 tape is underway! > > > > > I'm told "there is data" but I honestly don't know what that means > yet. > > > > -- https://discuss.systems/@ricci/115747843169814700 > > > > The process is being filmed by a TV news crew and some footage is > already > > > > available. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 6, 2025 at 3:42 PM Rob Pike via TUHS > wrote: > > > > > > > > > https://phanpy.social/#/hachyderm.io/s/115504720323483804 > > > > > > > > > > From mastodon: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob Ricci > > > > > ricci at discuss.systems > > > > > > > > > > While cleaning a storage room, our staff found this tape > containing #UNIX > > > > > v4 from Bell Labs, circa 1973 > > > > > > > > > > Apparently no other complete copies are known to exist: > > > > > gunkies.org/wiki/UNIX_Fourth_E > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have arranged to deliver it to the Computer History Museum > > > > > > From tuhs at tuhs.org Thu Jan 1 08:01:38 2026 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (=?utf-8?q?Cameron_M=C3=AD=C4=8Be=C3=A1l_Tyre_via_TUHS?=) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2025 22:01:38 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] unix v4 tape found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3Pz-Il9LcgBA9p70FPQFM2N8dGdwdQ8LH2PtHbHf5-RvaT2JjQ-LmNcey7neDQuJxrWOedl6P4nTkSSLO6mhUQcsDzFPAIXIRM-0i5qu00Y=@protonmail.ch> Great talk, Angelo, Shame it had to be only 5 minutes and not 5 hours. That would freak me out, going up on stage and knowing I only had 300 seconds to make some kind of sense. Thank you also for the links, at the end of your talk, they were super useful. Frohes neues Jahr! / Joyous New Year to everyone! Cameron -------- Original Message -------- On Wednesday, 12/31/25 at 15:27 Angelo Papenhoff via TUHS wrote: And i gave a lightning talk at 39c3: https://media.ccc.de/v/39c3-lightning-talks-tag-3#t=6345 aap From tuhs at tuhs.org Fri Jan 2 09:27:34 2026 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (=?utf-8?q?Martin_Schr=C3=B6der_via_TUHS?=) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2026 00:27:34 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] HP-UX is EOL Message-ID: Hi, happy new year. HP-UX went EOL on 2025-12-31: https://www.osnews.com/story/144094/hp-ux-hits-end-of-life-today-and-im-sad/ Best Martin From tuhs at tuhs.org Fri Jan 2 19:14:01 2026 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Jonathan Gray via TUHS) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2026 20:14:01 +1100 Subject: [TUHS] Photo of old Unix manuals In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Dec 28, 2025 at 10:38:37PM +0000, Thalia Archibald via TUHS wrote: > On Dec 28, 2025, at 14:12, segaloco via TUHS wrote: > > First image is V6 (+BTL Lions Commentary) > > I thought that Lions’ Commentary wasn’t distributed after BTL took over distribution? > Do you know whether there’s a scan of that version anywhere? > > The BTL takeover was announced in the March 1978 issue of ;login:. > https://archive.org/details/login_march-1978/page/n1/mode/1up > > Thalia Licensees were allowed to have one copy from BTL. https://archive.org/details/login_nov84_issue/page/n25/mode/1up https://www.tuhs.org/Usenet/comp.unix.wizards/1981-June/000459.html https://www.tuhs.org/Usenet/comp.unix.wizards/1986-January/015591.html From tuhs at tuhs.org Sat Jan 3 04:39:41 2026 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (David Barto via TUHS) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2026 10:39:41 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] UINX Program Description: For V6 Unix. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13941B9E-ACE0-4C53-893B-E203BC46A7D9@kdbarto.org> May I suggest that the following is a good read for V6 internals. Without source, and a well written description of functions. David https://archive.org/details/unix_program_description_jan_1976/page/n5/mode/2up UNIX Program Description : Bell Telephone Laboratiories, Incorporated : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive archive.org > On Jan 2, 2026, at 1:14 AM, Jonathan Gray via TUHS wrote: > > On Sun, Dec 28, 2025 at 10:38:37PM +0000, Thalia Archibald via TUHS wrote: >> On Dec 28, 2025, at 14:12, segaloco via TUHS wrote: >>> First image is V6 (+BTL Lions Commentary) >> >> I thought that Lions’ Commentary wasn’t distributed after BTL took over distribution? >> Do you know whether there’s a scan of that version anywhere? >> >> The BTL takeover was announced in the March 1978 issue of ;login:. >> https://archive.org/details/login_march-1978/page/n1/mode/1up >> >> Thalia > > Licensees were allowed to have one copy from BTL. > > https://archive.org/details/login_nov84_issue/page/n25/mode/1up > https://www.tuhs.org/Usenet/comp.unix.wizards/1981-June/000459.html > https://www.tuhs.org/Usenet/comp.unix.wizards/1986-January/015591.html From tuhs at tuhs.org Sat Jan 3 04:52:50 2026 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Rik Farrow via TUHS) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2026 11:52:50 -0700 Subject: [TUHS] UINX Program Description: For V6 Unix. In-Reply-To: <13941B9E-ACE0-4C53-893B-E203BC46A7D9@kdbarto.org> References: <13941B9E-ACE0-4C53-893B-E203BC46A7D9@kdbarto.org> Message-ID: Thanks, that's actually very interesting. One the second page, update() is described as including a lock to prevent it being called a second time before the first call is completed. That explained to me the lore I picked up at UC Berkeley about typing "sync;sync". I wondered why it was necessary to use sync twice, and the answer is that it's not: the first invocation appears to return immediately but invoked sync the second time waits until the first finishes--so you can tell updating of inodes and superblocks has completed. I'd heard that VAX systems running Unix were slow enough that experienced users could tell the system was becoming unstable and type sync. There was also a 'sync' user account, so typing 'sync' as a username would fire off update(). Rik On Fri, Jan 2, 2026 at 11:40 AM David Barto via TUHS wrote: > May I suggest that the following is a good read for V6 internals. Without > source, and a well written description of functions. > > David > > > https://archive.org/details/unix_program_description_jan_1976/page/n5/mode/2up >  > UNIX Program Description : Bell Telephone Laboratiories, Incorporated : > Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive > archive.org > > > > On Jan 2, 2026, at 1:14 AM, Jonathan Gray via TUHS > wrote: > > > > On Sun, Dec 28, 2025 at 10:38:37PM +0000, Thalia Archibald via TUHS > wrote: > >> On Dec 28, 2025, at 14:12, segaloco via TUHS wrote: > >>> First image is V6 (+BTL Lions Commentary) > >> > >> I thought that Lions’ Commentary wasn’t distributed after BTL took over > distribution? > >> Do you know whether there’s a scan of that version anywhere? > >> > >> The BTL takeover was announced in the March 1978 issue of ;login:. > >> https://archive.org/details/login_march-1978/page/n1/mode/1up > >> > >> Thalia > > > > Licensees were allowed to have one copy from BTL. > > > > https://archive.org/details/login_nov84_issue/page/n25/mode/1up > > https://www.tuhs.org/Usenet/comp.unix.wizards/1981-June/000459.html > > https://www.tuhs.org/Usenet/comp.unix.wizards/1986-January/015591.html > > From tuhs at tuhs.org Sat Jan 3 05:33:11 2026 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (segaloco via TUHS) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2026 19:33:11 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] UINX Program Description: For V6 Unix. In-Reply-To: References: <13941B9E-ACE0-4C53-893B-E203BC46A7D9@kdbarto.org> Message-ID: On Friday, January 2nd, 2026 at 10:53, Rik Farrow via TUHS wrote: > Thanks, that's actually very interesting. One the second page, update() is > described as including a lock to prevent it being called a second time > before the first call is completed. That explained to me the lore I picked > up at UC Berkeley about typing "sync;sync". I wondered why it was necessary > to use sync twice, and the answer is that it's not: the first invocation > appears to return immediately but invoked sync the second time waits until > the first finishes--so you can tell updating of inodes and superblocks has > completed. > > Rik I've seen this sort of thing in plenty of places, an operation that is gated by itself, run it twice in case the gate was closed the first time or otherwise you need to be sure the first one finished. On the NES, this is done to synchronize the PPU chip in software by awaiting v blank twice. The first is actually to erase any potential spurious interrupt flag and the second to then poll knowing you started with the flag down. Is there a name for this? I want to just call this sempahoring but it may be that a binary semaphore is a case of this larger thing. > On Fri, Jan 2, 2026 at 11:40 AM David Barto via TUHS tuhs at tuhs.org wrote: > > > May I suggest that the following is a good read for V6 internals. Without > > source, and a well written description of functions. > > > > David > > > > https://archive.org/details/unix_program_description_jan_1976/page/n5/mode/2up > >  > > UNIX Program Description : Bell Telephone Laboratiories, Incorporated : > > Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive > > archive.org > > For those following along at home, this specifically describes the USG Program Generic II kernel, so may have slight differences regarding stock V6 (and/or stock PDP-11/45 C kernel ). Does anyone on-list know the providence of this document by the way? The scan edges indicate it came from a comb-bound volume, I'd be curious if these were the only pages, if that volume contained other UNIX stuff, and especially if this implies other comb-binding of manuals at the time. Reason I ask is I seem to recall reading a post here or on a Usenet list by Ted Dolotta I believe detailing that the Release 3.0 manuals got approval to be printed on the same comb-bound stock used for internal phone directories, and that it was the first time USG had "published" a manual so formally. Seeing the comb-binding holes in the scan casts some doubt on this. - Matt G. From tuhs at tuhs.org Sat Jan 3 06:33:51 2026 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Clem Cole via TUHS) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2026 15:33:51 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] UINX Program Description: For V6 Unix. In-Reply-To: References: <13941B9E-ACE0-4C53-893B-E203BC46A7D9@kdbarto.org> Message-ID: below On Fri, Jan 2, 2026 at 2:33 PM segaloco via TUHS wrote: > ... > > > For those following along at home, this specifically describes the USG > Program Generic II kernel, I believe (as I was told at the time the kernel that Armando Stettner and the late Ted Kowalski worked on at Summit in the Unix Support Group (USG) was supposed to be called UNIX/TS. There is a note I wrote in pencil in my copy, to use this over Lion's in the future. Ted always talked about UNIX/TS as if it were going to be the official thing. > so may have slight differences regarding stock V6 (and/or stock PDP-11/45 > C kernel ). And V7 for that matter. Without looking at it again, my >>memory<< is that this document defines the kernel that Research took back. There was a push tio to unify the different flavors (CB/Unix, PWB, Risner's kernel, et al). USG was chartered by folks fairly high up in the AT&T food chain (similarly to how CSRG was chartered by DARPA); to create and support UNIX for the Bell System at large. I always understood that the action of importing the Summit kernel at that time was that Al Arms was starting the V7 licensing. As I understand it, Dennis did not want to be the "release engineer" for V7 (I believe srb put it together), but since V7 was going to go outside of Bell to the "general population" in the CS research community, it seemed like that was a good time to take back some it (by V8 they stopped trying and Research and Summit diverged). > Does anyone on-list know the providence of this document by the way? It was written at USG. I do not know by whom. That would be a good question to ask aps, as he and Ted were officemates at Summit. He might not. I have no idea if they had professional tech writers or if it was a new "product" from USG for the operating companies. BTW: the scan that archive.org has is missing at least the last 6 pages. > The scan edges indicate it came from a comb-bound volume, I'd be curious > if these were the only pages, Ted's copy was bound withg both holes the funky 2 pin standard AT&T binder, as well as industry standard 3 hole. > if that volume contained other UNIX stuff, no > and especially if this implies other comb-binding of manuals at the time. > GBC-style binding was used for things like the core UNIX manual set. In fact, Brian Redman (*a.k.a.* ber) took his 8.5 x 11 master for 4.1BSD, the same printer that USG was using, to make the first set of 6" x 9" GBC-bound BSD manuals. I've forgotten the details, but USENIX eventually took over get those printed (and offering them for sale to USENIX members). By the time of 4.3BSD, it had become a standard practice. > > Reason I ask is I seem to recall reading a post here or on a Usenet list > by Ted Dolotta I believe detailing that the Release 3.0 manuals got > approval to be printed on the same comb-bound stock used for internal phone > directories, and that it was the first time USG had "published" a manual so > formally. Hmmm - I'm not so sure of this. I thought PWB 1 and PWB 2 had 6" x 9" GBC-bound. Since Ted was part of PWB, it is likely that PWB 1.0, which Dolotta created, was the 6" x 9" GBC-bound "standard" for UNIX. I do know this: when 4.4 BSD was released, USENIX transferred the publishing task over to Tim O'Reilly. I remember having a conversation with him about the GBC binding. If he continued it, it would significantly increase the cost of each book, compared with the perfect-binding scheme he would eventually use for his 4.4BSD series. > Seeing the comb-binding holes in the scan casts some doubt on this. > I suspect someone xeroxgraphicly copied the original and put the result through a GBC punch From tuhs at tuhs.org Sat Jan 3 06:42:53 2026 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (David Barto via TUHS) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2026 12:42:53 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] UINX Program Description: For V6 Unix. In-Reply-To: References: <13941B9E-ACE0-4C53-893B-E203BC46A7D9@kdbarto.org> Message-ID: <0DA63EF7-4333-4C0C-AAC4-74D1DA50C526@kdbarto.org> > On Jan 2, 2026, at 12:33 PM, Clem Cole via TUHS wrote: > > BTW: the scan that archive.org has is missing at least the last 6 pages. Does anyone know/have any idea where a complete version of this document may be? I’ve had this one for a while, incomplete though it may be. A complete version would be "nice to have.” David From tuhs at tuhs.org Sat Jan 3 06:56:31 2026 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (segaloco via TUHS) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2026 20:56:31 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] UINX Program Description: For V6 Unix. In-Reply-To: <0DA63EF7-4333-4C0C-AAC4-74D1DA50C526@kdbarto.org> References: <13941B9E-ACE0-4C53-893B-E203BC46A7D9@kdbarto.org> <0DA63EF7-4333-4C0C-AAC4-74D1DA50C526@kdbarto.org> Message-ID: On Friday, January 2nd, 2026 at 12:43, David Barto via TUHS wrote: > > On Jan 2, 2026, at 12:33 PM, Clem Cole via TUHS tuhs at tuhs.org wrote: > > > > BTW: the scan that archive.org http://archive.org/ has is missing at least the last 6 pages. > > > Does anyone know/have any idea where a complete version of this document may be? > > I’ve had this one for a while, incomplete though it may be. A complete version would be "nice to have.” > > David This same document is in the archive: https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/USDL/unix_program_description_jan_1976.pdf Unfortunately it appears to be the same scan missing the tail end. Looks like Lubomir Rintel did a troff restoration: https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/USDL/unix_program_description-troffsrc.tar.gz Given that this is based on the scan, it is also incomplete. - Matt G. From tuhs at tuhs.org Sat Jan 3 08:04:49 2026 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Will Senn via TUHS) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2026 16:04:49 -0600 Subject: [TUHS] UINX Program Description: For V6 Unix. In-Reply-To: References: <13941B9E-ACE0-4C53-893B-E203BC46A7D9@kdbarto.org> <0DA63EF7-4333-4C0C-AAC4-74D1DA50C526@kdbarto.org> Message-ID: <1b110c8e-426c-4e92-8a05-93e3f663bd6e@gmail.com> old thread - mel might have the physical copy? Warren Toomey > wrote: >/All, I've just received the following e-mail. I am not able to physically />/get these documents, but if you are interested in them, feel free to contact />/Mel yourself. />//>/Cheers, Warren />//>/----- Forwarded message from meljmel-unix at yahoo.com ----- />//>/Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 13:30:09 +1000 (AEST) />/From: meljmel-unix at yahoo.com />/To: Warren T > />/Subject: Old Unix manuals, TMs, etc />//>//>/Hi, />//>/I started working at Bell Labs in 1971 and although />/not in the computing science research department, I />/was in another department down the hall. As a result />/I have many old Unix manuals, TM's and other papers />/that I wish to dispose of. I found you when I did a />/search to see if there was anyone who might want them. />/Appended below is a list of what I have. If you are />/interested in any of it or know who else might be, please />/let me know. If I can't find anyone to take them I guess />/I'll just throw them out. />//>/Mel />/meljmel-unix at yahoo.com />//>/========== />/These are the old Unix Manuals I have: />//>/UNIX PROGRAMMER'S MANUAL />/Program Generic PG-1C300 Issue 2 />/Published by the UNIX Support Group />/January, 1976 />//>/UNIX PROGRAMMER'S MANUAL />/Program Generic PG-1C300 Issue 3 />/Published by the UNIX Support Group />/March, 1977/ On 1/2/26 14:56, segaloco via TUHS wrote: > On Friday, January 2nd, 2026 at 12:43, David Barto via TUHS wrote: > >>> On Jan 2, 2026, at 12:33 PM, Clem Cole via TUHStuhs at tuhs.org wrote: >>> >>> BTW: the scan that archive.orghttp://archive.org/ has is missing at least the last 6 pages. >> >> Does anyone know/have any idea where a complete version of this document may be? >> >> I’ve had this one for a while, incomplete though it may be. A complete version would be "nice to have.” >> >> David > This same document is in the archive: > > https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/USDL/unix_program_description_jan_1976.pdf > > Unfortunately it appears to be the same scan missing the tail end. > Looks like Lubomir Rintel did a troff restoration: > > https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/USDL/unix_program_description-troffsrc.tar.gz > > Given that this is based on the scan, it is also incomplete. > > - Matt G. From tuhs at tuhs.org Sat Jan 3 09:32:06 2026 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Mary Ann Horton via TUHS) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2026 15:32:06 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] Release Dates, Systems History - (was Did System V Really Prevent 5BSD?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51fd32b7-60ef-460b-b22c-f80731b59aaf@mhorton.net> On 12/29/25 13:10, Clem Cole via TUHS wrote: > - Initial Internal Release: Some sources indicate an initial release in > 1980. This was likely a pre-commercial version known internally by names > such as UNIX/TS 3.0.1 or UNIX Release 3.0. > - Official Commercial Release: AT&T formally announced System III in > late 1981, and it was first made publicly (commercially) > available outside > of the Bell System in 1982. My UNIX Release 3.0 manual is dated June 1980. It's from Dolotta, olsson, and Petruccelli, Lab 364. The Acknowledgements page describes it (the manual) as descended from V6, UNIX/TS 1.1, and PWB/UNIX 2.0. My understanding is that this eventually turned into System III. > AT&T's UNIX System V had major releases starting with the initial System V 1983, My UNIX Release 5.0 manual is dated June 1982. It was internal to Bell Labs Division 452 (the computer centers). I understand this turned into System V. Thanks, /Mary Ann Horton/ (she/her/ma'am)       Award Winning Author maryannhorton.com From tuhs at tuhs.org Sat Jan 3 10:18:32 2026 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Warner Losh via TUHS) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2026 17:18:32 -0700 Subject: [TUHS] Release Dates, Systems History - (was Did System V Really Prevent 5BSD?) In-Reply-To: <51fd32b7-60ef-460b-b22c-f80731b59aaf@mhorton.net> References: <51fd32b7-60ef-460b-b22c-f80731b59aaf@mhorton.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 2, 2026 at 4:32 PM Mary Ann Horton via TUHS wrote: > On 12/29/25 13:10, Clem Cole via TUHS wrote: > > - Initial Internal Release: Some sources indicate an initial release in > > 1980. This was likely a pre-commercial version known internally > by names > > such as UNIX/TS 3.0.1 or UNIX Release 3.0. > > - Official Commercial Release: AT&T formally announced System III > in > > late 1981, and it was first made publicly (commercially) > > available outside > > of the Bell System in 1982. > My UNIX Release 3.0 manual is dated June 1980. It's from Dolotta, > olsson, and Petruccelli, Lab 364. The Acknowledgements page describes it > (the manual) as descended from V6, UNIX/TS 1.1, and PWB/UNIX 2.0. My > understanding is that this eventually turned into System III. > > AT&T's UNIX System V had major releases starting with the initial System > V 1983, > > My UNIX Release 5.0 manual is dated June 1982. It was internal to Bell > Labs Division 452 (the computer centers). I understand this turned into > System V. > 4.1BSD was July 1981 4.1aBSD was April 1982 4.1cBSD was Late 1982 This leaves us with Kirk's story lining up in two possible ways: 1. If the reason is System V, then the dates line up well to 4.1->5.0 plans changing to 4.1->4.2. 2. If the reason is Unix 5.0 plans that were hatched when 3.0 was released, then it does line up with the 4->5BSD plans vs 4BSD -> 4.1BSD actual. I'll see if I can get a peek at the dates of the printouts next time I'm at Kirk's house which would tell us for sure. He's quite sure the reason was AT&T. I see now that I didn't ask this detail... I'll follow up with him. Warner From tuhs at tuhs.org Sat Jan 3 11:49:59 2026 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Clem Cole via TUHS) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2026 20:49:59 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] UINX Program Description: For V6 Unix. In-Reply-To: <0DA63EF7-4333-4C0C-AAC4-74D1DA50C526@kdbarto.org> References: <13941B9E-ACE0-4C53-893B-E203BC46A7D9@kdbarto.org> <0DA63EF7-4333-4C0C-AAC4-74D1DA50C526@kdbarto.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 2, 2026 at 3:43 PM David Barto wrote: > > > On Jan 2, 2026, at 12:33 PM, Clem Cole via TUHS wrote: > > BTW: the scan that archive.org has is missing at least the last 6 pages. > > > Does anyone know/have any idea where a complete version of this document > may be? > Yes, sitting in a binder in front of me. > > I’ve had this one for a while, incomplete though it may be. A complete > version would be "nice to have.” > > David > > From tuhs at tuhs.org Sat Jan 3 15:56:01 2026 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (segaloco via TUHS) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2026 05:56:01 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] Release Dates, Systems History - (was Did System V Really Prevent 5BSD?) In-Reply-To: References: <51fd32b7-60ef-460b-b22c-f80731b59aaf@mhorton.net> Message-ID: On Friday, January 2nd, 2026 at 16:18, Warner Losh via TUHS wrote: > On Fri, Jan 2, 2026 at 4:32 PM Mary Ann Horton via TUHS tuhs at tuhs.org > > wrote: > > > On 12/29/25 13:10, Clem Cole via TUHS wrote: > > > > > - Initial Internal Release: Some sources indicate an initial release in > > > 1980. This was likely a pre-commercial version known internally > > > by names > > > such as UNIX/TS 3.0.1 or UNIX Release 3.0. > > > - Official Commercial Release: AT&T formally announced System III > > > in > > > late 1981, and it was first made publicly (commercially) > > > available outside > > > of the Bell System in 1982. > > > My UNIX Release 3.0 manual is dated June 1980. It's from Dolotta, > > > olsson, and Petruccelli, Lab 364. The Acknowledgements page describes it > > > (the manual) as descended from V6, UNIX/TS 1.1, and PWB/UNIX 2.0. My > > > understanding is that this eventually turned into System III. > > > AT&T's UNIX System V had major releases starting with the initial System > > > V 1983, > > > > My UNIX Release 5.0 manual is dated June 1982. It was internal to Bell > > Labs Division 452 (the computer centers). I understand this turned into > > System V. > > > 4.1BSD was July 1981 > 4.1aBSD was April 1982 > 4.1cBSD was Late 1982 > > This leaves us with Kirk's story lining up in two possible ways: > 1. If the reason is System V, then the dates line up well to 4.1->5.0 plans > > changing to 4.1->4.2. > > 2. If the reason is Unix 5.0 plans that were hatched when 3.0 was released, > then it does line up with the 4->5BSD plans vs 4BSD -> 4.1BSD actual. > > > I'll see if I can get a peek at the dates of the printouts next time I'm at > Kirk's > house which would tell us for sure. He's quite sure the reason was AT&T. > I see now that I didn't ask this detail... I'll follow up with him. > > Warner Bill Joy gives November 1980 as the distribution date of 4BSD, and then April 1981 as the date of the initial 4.1BSD revision[1]. This is the earliest date I can find given for anything named 4.1BSD. - Matt G. [1] - https://www.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=4.1cBSD/usr/man/man0/changes.4-81 From tuhs at tuhs.org Sun Jan 4 13:09:18 2026 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Douglas McIlroy via TUHS) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2026 22:09:18 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] Fwd: V7 RE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't remember how it was decided that the time had come for another edition. I volunteered to edit volume 1 of the manual. Andrew Hume took on volume 2, which ultimately split into 2A and 2B. We exercised some judgment about what should be in userland, wheedled contributions to the manual out of folks, and prodded fixes that would minimize the man-page BUGS sections. Maybe we rated the title of release provocateurs. As always in Unix, no one had ultimate authority. The most vivid example in v7 is that I didn't want uucp with its known security holes, but Mike Lesk could not be persuaded to work on closing them. It finally was included on the premise that it posed no new danger since it was already in widespread use. ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Clem Cole Date: Sat, Jan 3, 2026 at 11:08 AM Subject: Re: V7 RE To: srb gmail Cc: Douglas McIlroy Thank you. Fair enough. I was sure you had been heavily involved. Doug, your memory? On Sat, Jan 3, 2026 at 9:53 AM srb gmail wrote: > > "As I understand it, Dennis did not want to be the "release > engineer" for V7 (I believe srb put it together), but since V7 was going to > go outside of Bell to the "general population" in the CS research > community, it seemed like that was a good time to take back some it (by V8 > they stopped trying and Research and Summit diverged)." > > Hi Clem, I did some of the release engineering for V7. Wrote scripts to make sure the release tree had > src, bin and man pages and some other cleanup and checks. Doug I think was the official RE but he would > probably remember better than me. > > Steve From tuhs at tuhs.org Sun Jan 4 13:21:42 2026 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Clem Cole via TUHS) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2026 22:21:42 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] Fwd: V7 RE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you. Funny your story about uucp. In the end, it was probably the most significant new tool out side of the Bell system that came from Seventh Edition. Clem Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual On Sat, Jan 3, 2026 at 10:09 PM Douglas McIlroy via TUHS wrote: > I don't remember how it was decided that the time had come for another > edition. I volunteered to edit volume 1 of the manual. Andrew Hume > took on volume 2, which ultimately split into 2A and 2B. We exercised > some judgment about what should be in userland, wheedled contributions > to the manual out of folks, and prodded fixes that would minimize the > man-page BUGS sections. Maybe we rated the title of release > provocateurs. > > As always in Unix, no one had ultimate authority. The most vivid > example in v7 is that I didn't want uucp with its known security > holes, but Mike Lesk could not be persuaded to work on closing them. > It finally was included on the premise that it posed no new danger > since it was already in widespread use. > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: Clem Cole > Date: Sat, Jan 3, 2026 at 11:08 AM > Subject: Re: V7 RE > To: srb gmail > Cc: Douglas McIlroy > > > Thank you. Fair enough. I was sure you had been heavily involved. > Doug, your memory? > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2026 at 9:53 AM srb gmail wrote: > > > > "As I understand it, Dennis did not want to be the "release > > engineer" for V7 (I believe srb put it together), but since V7 was going > to > > go outside of Bell to the "general population" in the CS research > > community, it seemed like that was a good time to take back some it (by > V8 > > they stopped trying and Research and Summit diverged)." > > > > Hi Clem, I did some of the release engineering for V7. Wrote scripts to > make sure the release tree had > > src, bin and man pages and some other cleanup and checks. Doug I think > was the official RE but he would > > probably remember better than me. > > > > Steve > From tuhs at tuhs.org Sun Jan 4 14:41:50 2026 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Jonathan Gray via TUHS) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2026 15:41:50 +1100 Subject: [TUHS] UNIX Reference Card (Was: Vi Quick Reference card for 4.4 BSD) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 04, 2024 at 10:32:25AM -0400, Clem Cole wrote: > Also, while looking for the vi cards, I turned up two wonderful artifacts > that I'll try to get scanned and added to TUHS at some point. When you > purchased V7 from AT&T, you got one copy of the printed docs and a small > "purple/red" 9"x3.5" flip-binding reference card that Lorinda Cherry > compiled. Also, when DEC released V7M-11, they printed a small flip-binding > 8"x4" reference called the "programmers guide" [AA-X7978-1C]—which is > similar but different. Was the first edition also distributed to V6 licensees? -- UNIX Reference Card - First Edition L. L. Cherry September, 1975 A handy guide to UNIX commands and syntax. mentioned in: tuhs Distributions/Research/Dan_Cross_v10/v10src.tar.bz2 v10/doc/bibliog.a unpm-docs -- UNIX Reference Card distributed by Computing Information Service BELL LABORATORIES Murray Hill, N. J. 07974 compiled by Lorinda Cherry Second Edition, March 1979 incomplete scan, some pages missing: http://www.chilton-computing.org.uk/inf/pdfs/idus/idus00.pdf via http://www.chilton-computing.org.uk/inf/literature/notes/unix_notes_1_19.htm CHM has a copy, not currently scanned https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102632799/ spiral bound https://www.flickr.com/photos/n1kdo/53136436051 comb bound https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/bell-laboratories-unix-memorabilia-3759802979 From tuhs at tuhs.org Sun Jan 4 18:28:41 2026 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (segaloco via TUHS) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2026 08:28:41 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] UNIX Reference Card (Was: Vi Quick Reference card for 4.4 BSD) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Saturday, January 3rd, 2026 at 20:42, Jonathan Gray via TUHS wrote: > On Tue, Jun 04, 2024 at 10:32:25AM -0400, Clem Cole wrote: > > > Also, while looking for the vi cards, I turned up two wonderful artifacts > > that I'll try to get scanned and added to TUHS at some point. When you > > purchased V7 from AT&T, you got one copy of the printed docs and a small > > "purple/red" 9"x3.5" flip-binding reference card that Lorinda Cherry > > compiled. Also, when DEC released V7M-11, they printed a small flip-binding > > 8"x4" reference called the "programmers guide" [AA-X7978-1C]—which is > > similar but different. > > > Was the first edition also distributed to V6 licensees? > > -- > > UNIX Reference Card - First Edition > L. L. Cherry > September, 1975 > A handy guide to UNIX commands and syntax. > > mentioned in: > tuhs Distributions/Research/Dan_Cross_v10/v10src.tar.bz2 > v10/doc/bibliog.a unpm-docs > > -- > > UNIX Reference Card > distributed by > Computing Information Service > BELL LABORATORIES > Murray Hill, N. J. 07974 > compiled by Lorinda Cherry > Second Edition, March 1979 > > incomplete scan, some pages missing: > http://www.chilton-computing.org.uk/inf/pdfs/idus/idus00.pdf > via http://www.chilton-computing.org.uk/inf/literature/notes/unix_notes_1_19.htm > > CHM has a copy, not currently scanned > https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102632799/ > > spiral bound > https://www.flickr.com/photos/n1kdo/53136436051 > comb bound > https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/bell-laboratories-unix-memorabilia-3759802979 Ah shoot, I actually have an unknown-generations-removed photocopy of this V6 flipbook, I should scan that. For the record, among the Release 4.0 documents I scanned for Arnold Robbins is that release's issue of this flipbook (I think they're genetically linked anyway): https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Manuals/Unix_4.0/UNIX_Reference_Guide.pdf - Matt G.